Ein Podcast von Vivian Caccuri
(in englischer Sprache)
Mit:
Thiago Lanis
Domingos Guimaraens und Ynaiê Dawson (Opavivará)
Cabelo Cobra Coral
Thaís Delgado
Bruno Carvalho
Sabrina Fidalgo
Kreativ bleiben zwischen Glanz und Chaos in Rio de Janeiro
Folge 5 der Podcast-Serie Timezones, gemeinsam initiiert und koproduziert von Norient und dem Goethe-Institut. Diese Folge untersucht, wie Rio im Lauf der Jahrhunderte seine Musik geprägt und über die Vision von Kunstschaffenden, Kreativen und Wissenschaftler*innen seine Zukunft entworfen hat.
„Samba wurde verfolgt, er war für etliche reiche, wohlhabende, eurozentrische Brasilianer*innen eine Quelle der Beschämung, aber in vieler Hinsicht hat er letztlich triumphiert. So werden zahlreiche städtische Räume, die darauf ausgelegt waren, schwarze und arme Brasilianer*innen fernzuhalten, jetzt für Straßen-‚blocos‘ (Karnevalblöcke) genutzt, die heute während des Karnevals für den Grassroots-Samba wesentlich sind.“ (Bruno Carvalho)
Hinter den malerischen Landschaften und den klischeehaften Bildern von Karneval, Stränden und schönen Frauen liegt eine geheimnisumwobene und zerrissene Stadt: Rio de Janeiro. Rios musikalische und kreative Identität, wie Samba und Karneval, scheint sich stets im Wandel zu befinden und mit traditionellen Formen zu flirten, gleichzeitig blicken diese Formen jedoch auf eine konfliktreiche Geschichte zurück, die eng mit afro-brasilianischen Ausdrucksformen von Musik und Religion verbunden ist. In einem schwierigen historischen Moment der Krise, einer Pandemie und politischer Skrupellosigkeit vereinbaren Kunstschaffende in Rio diese Identitäten mit den dringendsten Erfordernissen und Wahrnehmungen der Realität. Das Ziel ist es, am Leben, bei Verstand und vor allem kreativ zu bleiben.
[0:12] Domingos (Opavivará)
This is a Paradise and hell city. It’s beauty and chaos, at the same time. It’s true! Natural beauties, beaches, rivers, mountains and, also, a very huge social clash.
It’s very clear on the landscape of the city those places. When you go up on the hills, on the favelas, in the rich areas, you have another reality.
[1:04] Ynaiê (Opavivará)
Thinking on this idea of Joseph Beuys that every person is an artist, I think that in Rio we have that in so many ways because of this improvisation need all the time in what we named «gambiarra», it is like all these creative ways of finding solutions that I mentioned.
There are so many parallel realities, all of a sudden you can find out that there’s a huge parallel market, economy going on that you never heard of in the favelas.
[1:47] Domingos (Opavivará)
We live in this situation of hell and paradise, paradise, paradise. But there are people who are allowed to live the paradise and others that are denied to live this paradise.
Paradise, paradise, paradise; the beach is a very pleasurable place!
[2:06] Domingos and Ynaie (Opavivará)
Order shock, order shock, order shock, order shock
Pinapple
Shrimps
Lemonade
Corn
Ice cream in a bag
Bikinis
Lollipops
Rolling paper
Sunscreen
Beautiful butts
The beach is a very pleasurable place!
Cigarettes
Speakers!
Headphones!
Sunglasses, yeah, sunglasses
The beach is a very pleasurable place!
[2:53] Domingos (Opavivará)
For us, living in this situation and crossing those borders, it’s something that connects a lot with our practice and work in the public spaces, on the beaches, at the squares and streets of the city. I think we try to understand and respond to those issues in a work that talks about pleasure and this paradise part of the city...
[3:34] Ynaiê (Opavivará)
And somehow to bring this paradise even to the places where it’s not possible or not usually seen as a place to offer these pleasurable experiences.
[3:56] Cabelo Cobra Coral
I feel the same, but the same every day, it turns into different.
I feel the same, but the same every day, it turns into different.
I feel the same, but
Yeah my daily life, my common life is better when I have a day that I have to do nothing, and
I keep on doing nothing.
I feel the same, but
That’s the principal of my art. You wake up in the morning and go to swim in the sea, and it’s like that, you have nothing to do and keep on doing nothing. It’s like that: you open a poetry book, a book of poetry, and you climb in a poetry tree, yeah? And in one of these branches there’s a beautiful fruit and you eat it, and then you stay in the hammock and...
I feel the same, but the same everyday, it turns into different.
I feel the same, but
Yeah, and reading poetry and eating the fruits of the poetry tree it’s like that! Makes me sleep in the hammock, and sleeping in the hammock I dream!
Streets, trees, trees trees....
I feel the same, but...
I do not really like to work.
I don’t think work makes a man more honorable or not, you know.
I feel the same, but...
I feel the same, but...
I’d like to tell you that had many, many craziest days in my life.
Not only one, oh
Not only one.
I thank God, I thank you, oh.
I thank God, I thank you.
God bless me with many, many craziest days in my life!
[7:02] Thaís Delgado
My day starts very early. I usually wake up at 6 or 7 o’clock. I drink my turmeric and propolis and lemon shot, and then my green juice. After that, I usually like to do my exercise at the Aterro do Flamengo, a beautiful place near my home. Then, I go back home and start to do my works and all the things that I have to do, like that.
We don’t have a lot of Black people working in the fashion industry. Now we have a different scene, and I think a lot of things are changing, but when I started, like seven years ago, we didn’t have the scene that we have now, with a lot of Black people, Black brands, and I think it was not just for the models, it was the whole concept about the fashion. It was not something that included us Black people in the scene.
When I start, I have always in my mind that I have to put a Black model in my shoots. I don’t make clothes just for Black people. I love to make clothes, designs, and piece, but I want to make clothes that my people, the Black people, feel comfortable to wear and feel satisfied and inspired that it was created by a Black woman, you know.
[9:57] Bruno Carvalho
To listen to a tradition significantly different from those to which you were exposed, you’d have to go to a place where you’d be among strangers. That’s something we’ve learned to take for granted in modernity and in the cities, but it’s not part of humans’ until we stopped being nomads, until we essentially started to move to cities and be among strangers all the time.
There’s this whole sort of cultural geography to sound that you couldn’t separate from the development of certain musical genres. People couldn’t actually think of the sound and the dance as separate entities, because they always came together. So, in this way, cities become platform for chance encounters and laboratories for music experimentation.
Rio had more enslaved Africans than any other city in the world for much of its 19th century history and it was, of course, a city with a lot of Europeans and lot of native-born peoples, and each of these peoples brought with them very different heritages and traditions.
And in Rio’s case which was already an extraordinarily divided city along racial and social economic terms, if you are a wealthy person, or an intellectual or an aristocrat or whatever, if you’re interested in these sounds, you got to be there.
Samba was criminalized like blackness was criminalized and poverty was criminalized. So, the vision for the future of Eurocentric Brazilian elites in the early 20th century was essentially to turn Rio into a Paris in the tropics. So, you had urban reforms modelled after Paris that had laws like, you’re not allowed to be here unless you’re wearing a coat, this in a tropical, almost a Victorian dress code, or if you’re not wearing shoes...
[12:55] MC Bruna Alves
Me desculpa pai, me desculpa mãe,
hoje eu vou sarrar pro chefe da cintura ignorante
Me desculpa pai, me desculpa mãe,
hoje eu vou sarrar pro chefe da cintura ignorante
I’m sorry father, I’m sorry mother,
Today I am going to hump the boss
that has a hot waist
[13:42] Bruno Carvalho
You know, samba is an affirmation of life in a country that is shaped by some very violent ideas. But even then, even in the face of horror, life affirms itself. And that’s samba to me.
Is there something samba formally that would lend itself to how wildly successful it was in the 20th century, or in the first half of the 20th century? I mean, it’s hard for me to answer that because I just, I love samba, I can’t imagine a world without samba. Samba spread so successfully because it is extraordinary, because it’s great!
Once samba becomes part of the musical star system then I think the racial cleavages become much more evident, because you have white musicians that are becoming celebrities and making a lot of money out of these musical genres. And then, you have Black musicians that are doing the compositions or in the background and not financially benefiting nearly as much from the commercialization of the genre.
[15:14] Cabelo Cobra Coral
My favorite place, is a combination of time and space.
My favorite place, is a combination of time and space.
My favorite place, is a combination of time and space.
[15:37] Sabrina Fidalgo
It’s a big lie! We are living a big lie since six hundred years! And nobody has the ability to think about it and to fight against this, come on!
[15:49] Cabelo Cobra Coral
My favorite place, is a combination of time and space.
[15:55] Sabrina Fidalgo
The older I get, I’m more sensible about this topic, about the ecologica, topic. And we are surrounded by nature in this city, even though, the Mata Atlântica (Atlantic Forest) is almost completely destroyed here. We have some focuses of Mata Atlântica in the city of Rio, but very few. Imagine that everything was about this before, you know. And, now I live in Laranjeiras and my house is very close to a hill and I am in touch with many birds, animals, I have some monkeys trying to come into my home.
And yes, I’m thinking more about this you know, and for me, when you arrive, when you get into this old buildings, old colonial places in Rio or other cities of Brazil you realize that it is all about wood, everything is built by or with wood.
It is disgusting! It is unbelievable! It is a big lie!
It’s unbelievable that we have such a fascist dictator in power because that’s what he is you know. Fascist dictator! It’s a big lie! They are conservatives, they are racists, they are homophobics, they use the religion to manipulate poor people. They want to destroy everything, they want to sell the whole country, they don’t give a damn to the nature, they don’t give a damn to the originary people from Brazil.
I cannot explain the feeling I have when I think about it you know, I don’t want to talk about this, I don’t want to talk about this aesthetics because it is aesthetics too you know, it’s all about aesthetics. They have this horrible aesthetics, it’s everything horrible about them.
So I cannot be inspired by this. I want to talk about beautiful things, great things, not horrible things.
[19:18] Thiago Lanis
So, I’m from favela, a typical favela in Rio. It’s not a dangerous place. The first time I went to Europe, I was so happy and interested, because it was the first time I was outside of Brazil. I was so happy and curious as well. I don’t know, it was really, really nice. Nice time, nice moment to discover other things, you know. I was so, so happy that time!
I was discovering more of myself because I was completely alone and at the same time not. So, I was discovering more about myself because I was really, really alone, with nobody. You can find more about yourself when you’re happy or really, really sad about any situation. I never felt like that, so that’s why I’ll never forget that kind of feelings the first time. Interesting to be here, so far away from my house and... it was nice as well.
Hard and also nice, you know?
[21:17] Domingos (Opavivará)
I think that Rio is a spiritual city not in a way connected to a religious feeling of Christianity or something like that, but more connected to the body, to the... this feeling of this beat of samba.
[21:45] Ynaiê (Opavivará)
Rio is definitely a spiritual place. I think that the landscape already inspires it in so many ways. Being at the beach, being at the mountains, being around the nature is a very spiritual experience.
[22:28] MC Don Juan
Amar, amei, gostar, gostei, mas agora não quero nem de graça.
Não dá mais.
Era um briga em cima da outra.
Ô moça, Não dá mais.
Era um briga em cima da outra.
To love, I loved, to like, I liked, but now I don’t want it no even for free.
I can’t anymore.
It was one fight on top of the other.
Hey lady, I can’t anymore.
It was one fight on top of the other.
[22:58] Bruno Carvalho
Samba was persecuted, it was a source of embarrassment for a lot of rich, wealthy, Eurocentric Brazilians, but in many ways, it won out. So, a lot of the urban spaces that were designed to keep out Black Brazilians and poor Brazilians, became the spaces that are now used for street «blocos» (carnival blocks) that are now central to grassroots samba during carnival.
[23:40] MC Don Juan
Vai com suas amiga pra lá, vai pra lá
Cuidado prela não te dar perdido e vir aqui me dar.
Vai com suas amiga pra lá, vai pra lá
Cuidado prela não te dar perdido e vir aqui me dar.
Go away with your friends, go away.
Be careful so she won’t deceive you and come fuck me.
Go away with your friends, go away.
Be careful so she won’t deceive you and come fuck me.
[23:55] Sabrina Fidalgo
If we really want as a country to go forward, we really need to look back and reanalyze the situation and try to change things. I think it is really time to change. It’s impossible to go forward.
[24:40] Cabelo Cobra Coral
In the evening, if I’m not sleeping, If I’m not dreaming, I’m dreaming awake. And I like to be awake in the evening, and I like to cross the evening until it dawns. There are not too many frequencies affecting your body.
My body is affected by many many, many, many, many frequencies, freak frequencies that affected my body! Oh, I can’t stand with too much information, you know!? I don’t like to be busy, I like to be easy.
Thiago Lanis, geboren in Arará, einer Favela im Norden von Rio, ist Model sowie autodidaktischer Sänger und Komponist. Thiago war schon immer ein großer Fan von Samba, brasilianischer Popmusik und internationalem Pop und nutzt bassbetonte und grazile rhythmische Klänge als Hauptinspiration und -material für seine Kreationen. Thiago arbeitet als Komponist für Estúdio OSSO, ein Filmmusik-Studio in Rio de Janeiro.
Opavivará ist ein Kunstkollektiv aus Rio de Janeiro, das Aktionen in öffentlichen Räumen in der ganzen Stadt, in Galerien und Kultureinrichtungen konzipiert und mithilfe der Entwicklung relationaler Objekte, die kollektive Erfahrungen bieten, Umkehrungen in der Nutzung städtischer Räume vorschlägt. Seit ihrer Gründung im Jahr 2005 ist die Gruppe aktiv in die zeitgenössische brasilianische Kunstszene involviert.
Cabelo Cobra Coral ist ein brasilianischer Künstler, der in Rio de Janeiro lebt und arbeitet. Cabelo ist Dichter, Musiker und bildender Künstler. Seine Zeichnungen, Gemälde, Skulpturen, Lieder, Performances, Videos und Instaurationsprozesse sind für ihn Manifestationen von Poesie. Derzeit arbeitet er an dem fortlaufenden Projekt „Luz com Trevas“: einer Ausstellung, einer Show und einem Album, die sich zu einem einzigen Werk zusammenfügen.
Thaís Delgado ist eine in Rio de Janeiro lebende Modedesignerin und die Inhaberin von VERKKO, einer 2015 gegründeten Marke, die von Delgados eigenem subjektiven Universum, ihren Erinnerungen, ihren Gefühlen und ihrem Verständnis ihres Kontexts als afro-diasporische Frau inspiriert ist.
Bruno Carvalho ist Literaturprofessor an der Universität Harvard. Er arbeitet zu Städten als gelebten und imaginierten Räumen und untersucht Beziehungen zwischen kulturellen Praktiken und Urbanisierung mit Schwerpunkt Brasilien. Carvalhos interdisziplinärer Ansatz schlägt Brücken zwischen Geschichte, literaturwissenschaftlicher Analyse und Urbanistik. Der aus Rio de Janeiro stammende Carvalho machte an der Universität Harvard seinen Doktor (2009) und war Fakultätsmitglied an der Universität Princeton (2009–2018).
Sabrina Fidalgo ist eine preisgekrönte brasilianische Filmemacherin. Ihre Filme wurden bei über 300 nationalen und internationalen Filmfestivals gezeigt. Sie studierte an der Hochschule für Fernsehen und Film in München sowie über ABC Guionístas Drehbuchschreiben an der Universität Cordoba, Spanien.
Vivian Caccuri ist eine in Rio de Janeiro ansässige Klangkünstlerin. Sie interessiert sich für Klang und Musik als Weg, Experimente rund um die Sinneswahrnehmung mit Fragen zu Geschichte und sozialer Konditionierung zu verflechten. Im Laufe ihrer Karriere hat sie mit Musikern wie Arto Lindsay (USA/BR), Gilberto Gil (BR) und Wanlov (Ghana) zusammengearbeitet. Ihre Werke wurden auf der Biennale von Venedig, in den Serpentine Galleries, bei der Kochi Biennale in Indien, im Ming Museum in Shanghai und anderswo gezeigt. Zusammen mit Thiago Lanis komponiert sie im OSSO Estúdio Sonoro in Rio de Janeiro.
In Rio de Janeiro ein Weltbild aufspüren
moderiert und produziert von Daniel Limaverde
Der Abend, an dem Daniel Limaverde zum ersten Mal seine Klangkunst-Kollegin Vivian Caccuri traf, fand in vollkommenem Schweigen statt, während sie in Begleitung einer Gruppe von fünfzehn schweigenden Einheimischen acht Stunden lang durch die leeren Straßen und Stadtviertel des nächtlichen Rio de Janeiro streiften. Diese von Vivian Caccuris Serie „Schweigespaziergänge“ angeregte Aktivität enthüllt spontan die Geräusche einer Stadt, die sich unauslöschlich in das Hörbewusstsein ihrer Einwohner*innen eingraben.
In diesem Bonusgespräch interviewte Daniel Limaverde Vivian Caccuri im Verlauf eines Tages in der Stadt. Bei einem Streifzug durch ihr Stadtviertel reflektierten sie über Rio de Janeiros soziales, ökologisches und politisches Weltbild und die Erzählungen, die in die brasilianische Gesellschaft zurückwirken – und hinaus in den Rest der Welt. Sie diskutieren zudem die Entstehung von Vivian Caccuris Timezones-Folge und wie ihre bisherigen Arbeiten in der Erstellung von Soundsystemen und der Durchführung von „Schweigespaziergängen“ diese Podcastproduktion umreißen.
Daniel Limaverde ist ein Komponist, Klangkünstler und Sachthemen-Audioproduzent aus Rio de Janeiro. Er gründete die brasilianische Podcast-Boutique Mafuá Audio und moderiert die erzählende Sachthemen-Sendung Palimpsesto, die durch das Zurückverfolgen mehrerer historischer Fäden Themen aus der brasilianischen Kultur und Gesellschaft untersucht. Als Musiker hat Limaverde an internationalen Austauschen mit Japan (Red Bull Music Academy) und den Vereinigten Staaten (OneBeat) teilgenommen. Er arbeitet zudem als Musikproduzent für darstellende Künstler*innen, komponiert Soundtracks für Film, Fernsehen und Podcasts und schafft Klangkunstinstallationen.
Credits
Mit freundlicher Genehmigung von:
Regie, Idee, Interviews: Vivian Caccuri Musik: Vivian Caccuri, Thiago Lanis Zusätzliche Samples: Opavivará, MC Bruna Alves, MC Don Juan Bearbeitung: Vivian Caccuri Künstlerische Bearbeitung: Svetlana Maraš Projektmanagement: Hannes Liechti Jingle-Sprecherin: Nana Akosua Hanson Jingle-Abmischung: Daniel Jakob Mastering: Adi Flück, Centraldubs Grafik:Šejma Fere
