Höhepunkt einer Karriere
A Day With John Lennon

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Diese Folge stammt von Kerstin Zilm, die 2003 als Leiterin des ARD‑Hörfunkstudios an der US‑Westküste nach Los Angeles kam. Nachdem diese Aufgabe beendet war, entschloss sie sich dazu, in Kalifornien zu bleiben. Sie gründete ihre eigene Produktionsfirma und arbeitet seither als freiberufliche Autorin und Journalistin. In diesem Podcast unterhält sich Kerstin Zilm mit Frances Schoenberger und auch John Lennon ist zu hören. Das Bild zur Folge hat Bob Gruen aufgenommen, der berühmte Fotograf zahlreicher Rock‑’n’‑Roll‑Legenden. Es zeigt Frances Schoenberger und John Lennon 1975 in New York. Außer dieser Episode hat Kerstin Zilm die Folgen „Klinsmann in California“ und „Villa Aurora and Thomas Mann House in Los Angeles“ produziert.

Transkript

Frances Schoenberger: I don’t know how that works. Ah! There we go. Oooh, oh yay — I am a little nervous about it.

[AMBI1 FRANCES TRYING TO GET THE CD PLAYER TO START]

Kerstin Zilm: Frances Schoenberger tries to get her CD player to start. She is sitting in the sunny living room in her hillside home overlooking the city of Los Angeles. She has interviewed every musician, filmmaker, and actor making headlines the last 50 years — from Alfred Hitchcock to Frank Zappa. She is still an active reporter and member of the Hollywood Foreign Press Association, which awards the Golden Globes every year.

Now she wants to listen to an interview she did on March 28th, 1975, with musical icon John Lennon.

At the time of the interview, Schoenberger was 30 years old. She worked as rock-and-roll and Hollywood reporter for the German magazine Bravo. She grew up in a tiny, Catholic village in Bavaria, left home when she was 13, and a few years later worked as assistant to a famous German journalist in Munich.

Frances Schoenberger created her life in the United States from scratch. In 1975, she had already interviewed a lot of celebrities for German magazines and newspapers. John Lennon was on her list for a long time.
 
Kerstin Zilm: The encounter with John Lennon turned out to be so special that Frances Schoenberger never listened to the tape, afraid that what she would hear might not live up to her memories — or have a negative impact on them. She is nervous.
   
Kerstin Zilm: March 1975. John Lennon is back in New York and reunited with Yoko Ono after spending 18 months in Los Angeles. On the West Coast, he made headlines for partying excessively in Hollywood clubs. There were stories about dramatic scenes during recording sessions with producer Phil Spector. His relationship with May Pang, his and Yoko Ono’s former secretary, was fodder for gossip magazines all over the world. It was a relationship Ono had initiated.

On top of that, the ex-Beatle is in a legal fight with the United States over getting a green card. The government threatens to deport him because he overstayed his visa.

He has a number one hit on the charts with Elton John: “Whatever Gets You Thru the Night.”

At the same time, Frances Schoenberger lives on the other side of the continent, in Los Angeles, sending stories from Hollywood to Germany. In March, she goes back to New York, where her U.S. reporting career started. She stays in a hotel, preparing interviews. The opportunity to meet John Lennon comes out of nowhere.
 
Kerstin Zilm: She immediately gets a different hotel room: bigger and with a view on Central Park. She knows that photographer Bob Gruen will need good shots. For her client, the German Pop magazine, pictures will be more important than her writing. The editors are not half as excited about the chance to interview John Lennon as she is. The Beatles had split up five years ago. Lennon’s career has hit a plateau. The magazine is more interested in stories about David Cassidy and Alice Cooper, ABBA, and the Bay City Rollers.
 
Kerstin Zilm: When she gets the news that John Lennon will come to her hotel room, the journalist has no idea yet how deep the conversation will go. But she is determined to make the most of this opportunity. She gets prepared. The recorder is set with 90 minutes of tape. She has extra batteries, a notebook, pens ... and many questions.
   
Kerstin Zilm: Schoenberger brings a black and white photograph from her office to the living room. Bob Gruen gave it to her.
 
The picture shows the reporter sitting on the bed talking with John Lennon. She wears dark bell-bottoms, a sweater with the Camel cigarette logo and picture on the front, her hair styled in a shoulder-length perm. She looks directly at John Lennon. Smiling. Curious. The recorder between them on the bed is not running.
 
Kerstin Zilm: In the picture, Lennon leans towards her looking right into her eyes. He wears a light-colored three-piece suit with matching scarf, a flat hat, and his signature round rim glasses.
 
Kerstin Zilm: When Gruen arrives at the hotel, he takes a few pictures in the room, then he tells everybody to go downstairs and be ready for the ride to the park.

Schoenberger is shocked when she sees Gruen’s Toyota station wagon. It is small and the photographer has not bothered to clean it up.
 
Kerstin Zilm: She starts recording.

[AMBI2 FRANCES SIGHS/TAPE STARTS]
 
Kerstin Zilm: Now, more than 40 years later, Frances Schoenberger listens to her 30-year-old self riding in a car with John Lennon, the windows open, driving through Manhattan on a bumpy road — for the first time.

The interview starts with a topic that is in the news in 1975: Lennon’s legal fight with the U.S. government about getting a green card.
 
Kerstin Zilm: The young journalist comes straight to the point of accusations against Lennon.
Kerstin Zilm: She asks about other British stars living in the United States: David Bowie and Elton John.
Kerstin Zilm: Frances Schoenberger stops the CD a few minutes into the recording. She is more relaxed now — and surprised.
 
Kerstin Zilm: She is now very curious about the rest of the interview and starts the CD again.

[AMBI3 TAPE WHAT KIND OF LIFE DO YOU LIVE IN NEW YORK]

Kerstin Zilm: Her questions become more personal, fast. Lennon talks about his lifestyle now and in the past. He remembers buying lots of stuff, when he first made money with the Beatles — like lots of cars, even though he wasn’t even into cars. He tells Schoenberger about living in a big house with huge grounds in England ... and then in a really small apartment in New York. He talks about collaborating with other musicians, about helping each other out during recordings. And about walking the streets of New York without people bothering him which he enjoys a lot after the crazy Beatles years. When Schoenberger asks him about his money, he says that it is just sitting in the bank because he cannot find any options to invest it without exploiting people. It sounds like he does not need a lot to be happy anymore.
Kerstin Zilm: Listening to the tape, it is obvious that Schoenberger and Lennon become more and more comfortable with each other on the back seat of that messy little station wagon, driving through New York. He talks about showing up at the Grammys with Yoko Ono, for the first time after their separation — which he calls a ‘failure.’ And he always checks to see the tape is still running, making sure everything he says is recorded.
Kerstin Zilm: Schoenberger asks him about May Pang, Lennon’s and Yoko Ono’s personal assistant. The musician had moved to Los Angeles with her in 1973. Ono suggested that May should become his companion and that they should stay on the West Coast for a while when the couple was in a major crisis. The relationship with Pang lasted 18 months. Lennon later referred to that period as the Lost Weekend. Now, in March 1975, Lennon is back with his wife, and Pang is still their personal secretary.
Kerstin Zilm: Frances Schoenberger, John Lennon, and photographer Bob Gruen have been in the car now for almost half an hour. They are halfway to their destination: Untermyer Gardens in Yonkers, a park on the Hudson River, with meadows, weeping willows, fountains, and ruins. Lennon checks the rolling tape again when Schoenberger asks him about his Rock ’n’ Roll album. The musician seems to be eager to tell his version of the production with eccentric producer Phil Spector in Los Angeles.

[AMBI 4 RECORDING SESSION CHAOS, LENNON’S VOICE IN THE MIDDLE]
 
Kerstin Zilm: It made a lot of headlines. Reports about musicians being drunk and stoned playing out of tune, about Spector showing up dressed like a surgeon and with a gun, and shooting into the ceiling — are in papers all over the world. Lennon explains: it was supposed to be a really fun project, where he would just show up to sing rock-and-roll songs he loves. He wanted to record something fun, he says, nothing deep and personal like most of his own songs. And leave everything else to Spector, whom he had worked with before.
Kerstin Zilm: Lennon describes the maddening details of the production turning into a totally surreal scenario. Eventually, Lennon says, he sobered up, became the odd man out in the group of drunk musicians, somehow got the tapes back, realized that it was basically 28 guys playing out of tune ... and that most of the tracks were totally useless.
Kerstin Zilm: Frances Schoenberger stops the CD again. She remembers that after a few minutes into the interview she did not look at her notebook anymore. She just asked questions about topics she was curious about and followed up on things he said. It felt completely natural, she says, to talk with John Lennon about the relationship between him, his wife, and May Pang.
[AMBI 5 TAPE FRANCES LENNON]  
Kerstin Zilm: She starts playing the recording again. The conversation is now about Lennon’s relationship with his son, Julian. Julian was born in April 1963 in Liverpool, during Lennon’s first marriage with Cynthia Powell. The musician left the family five years later to be with Yoko Ono. There was almost no communication between father and son until May Pang encouraged them to reunite, with Julian visiting his father regularly. Lennon talks about how he thought he needed to come up with special events during Julian’s visits. One of those was a trip to Disneyworld, in Florida, which was awful because the place was totally crowded. The musician says it must be hell for Julian to be the son of a rock star and tells Schoenberger about the fun he now has, just hanging out in the studio with his son or talking with him about music on the phone. Julian turns him onto groups and musicians he has never heard of. Like Freddie Mercury and Queen.
Kerstin Zilm: Lennon also talks about times The Beatles spent in Hamburg in the early ’60s. One time his wife Cynthia traveled with them. They all went to a church outside the Reeperbahn and up into its big green tower, where they carved their names into the wall. He thinks visitors to that church can still see the words ‘John loves Cyn.’

He talks about living in different places: Liverpool, Hamburg, New York. Big estates and small apartments. Lennon briefly mentions the place he and Yoko Ono now live in: The Dakota building on Central Park.
Kerstin Zilm: A funny remark at that time. But not looking back, knowing that John Lennon was shot five years after this recording, at the Dakota — returning from a recording session with Yoko Ono on December 8th, 1980.

[AMBI NEWS OF JOHN LENNON’S DEATH]

Kerstin Zilm: Mark Chapman shot Lennon four times in the back at close range. The musician was pronounced dead at the hospital. Earlier that evening, the two had met. Lennon had autographed a copy of the Lennon/Ono album Double Fantasy for Chapman.
Kerstin Zilm: At the time of the interview, there was no reason to get further into that subject. So Schoenberger moved on.
Kerstin Zilm: Elvis had just turned 40. He started a new show in Las Vegas 10 days earlier. Lennon did see Elvis once, he says. The Beatles went to visit him together at his house. We were all terrified. He was our idol, he remembers. They were surprised to see Elvis sitting in front of a TV.  
[AMBI 5 DRIVING]

Kerstin Zilm: Listening to the tape today is like getting a peek into a world that does not exist anymore. It is simply impossible for a reporter to get the chance to sit next to a megastar on the back seat of a car, no topic off-limits, no time limit, and no press agent anywhere close. Elvis Presley died two years later, and John Lennon was killed. In her interview, Schoenberger eventually asks a question that has been on her mind for a while: How does a Beatle write a song?
Kerstin Zilm: Sometimes he would like to have somebody else write the lyrics for him, Lennon says, like Bernie Taupin does for Elton John. Music comes so much easier to him than words. But, on the other hand, he admits, that would not work well, because he is too egocentric to write music to other people’s words. He sometimes would like to write just easy, fun songs and disco music. But that is also impossible.  
Kerstin Zilm: Suddenly, the recording stops — but the CD is still running. A few seconds later, the sound comes back with totally different background noises.

[AMBI 5 DINER]

Kerstin Zilm: Schoenberger, Lennon, and Gruen are now in a small diner close to the park in Yonkers. They sit down at the counter, and Lennon again makes sure the tape is running. 

[AMBI 6 ORDERING FOOD FRANCES AND LENNON]
Kerstin Zilm: After placing their order, they start talking about diets. This conversation leads them to exchanging experiences with the primal scream therapy developed by Arthur Janov. In the ’70s, this therapy is very popular. Schoenberger tried it for two weeks in New York. Lennon and Yoko Ono did it with Janov a few months.

The therapy led to the production and release of Lennon’s first solo album after the Beatles’ breakup: John Lennon/Plastic Ono Band.
 
In his interview with Schoenberger, Lennon laughs remembering the consequences of his six months with Janov for his weight. He took the advice to let go of any self-control very seriously, he says, living on chocolate and Dr. Pepper.
 
Kerstin Zilm: Over BLT sandwiches and coffee, Schoenberger and Lennon talk about crying and screaming in therapy. Then the reporter casually asks a very private question.
 
Kerstin Zilm: More than 40 years later, Frances Schoenberger still thinks it is perfectly normal that Lennon answered her very private question without a second of hesitation.
 
Kerstin Zilm: There are only a few minutes left on Schoenberger’s tape. At the counter of a little diner in Yonkers, nobody seems to recognize John Lennon, and only a few wonder who the guy with the British accent is. Nobody interrupts the interview, which has turned into a conversation.
 
Kerstin Zilm: John Lennon asks for the check and pays. There is also a black and white picture of that. It shows a typical ’70s diner with sugar, ketchup, mustard, napkins, salt and pepper shakers on the counter. A man reading the paper at the far end. Wood-paneled walls and a low ceiling. Lennon counts a few crumbled dollar notes onto the counter, a pack of cigarettes next to him while the reporter is looking on.

It is time for the photoshoot. The tape stops.
 
Kerstin Zilm: Frances Schoenberger leans back into the chair in her light-filled living room. She is exhausted but also glad she finally dared to listen to her recording.